April Office Hours: Defining The Invisible Labour of OER (Audio and Chat Transcripts)

Office Hours

Watch the video recording of this Office Hours session, or keep reading for a full transcript. The chat transcript is also available, for those interested in reading the conversation that took place amongst participants and seeing resources shared.

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Audio Transcript


  • Ali Versluis
  • Melissa Ashman
  • Esperanza Zenon
  • Monica Brown
  • Karen Lauritsen
  • Zoe Wake Hyde
  • Kathy Essmiller

Karen: Hi everyone. It’s on the hour and we’re going to go ahead and start our conversation. We’re expecting a lot of people today. And so, we’re going to try and do some tech management to make this as smooth as possible for all of you. As always, we are excited to partner with the Rebus Community on Office Hours. My name is Karen, I’m with the Open Textbook Network.

These are monthly calls in which we discuss issues and practical considerations that you’re all dealing with as you work in the OER space creating open textbooks and other resources. So, today we’re excited to have four guests with us. They are going to discuss the invisible labor of OER, which is probably near and dear to many of our hearts. And then, we’re going to continue this conversation in May, when we will feature additional guests.

And talk about strategies for dealing with invisible labor and hear some stories about people who’ve been there and how they approached it. So, without further ado, I’m going to hand things over to Zoe who will introduce our guests and facilitate our conversation. And we’re excited to hear from all of you as well and explore these issues. So, Zoe please take it away.

Zoe: Thanks, Karen. Hi everyone, it’s really great to see so many of you here today, thank you for joining us. I apologize in advance a little bit, my voice is on its way out and there may be some coughing, but I’ll try to keep myself muted to help with that. As always, we’re really pleased to be sharing this time with our friends at OTN. And this topic in particular we’re really excited to bring into the Office Hours series.

And as we were planning this, we really started realizing that it’s a very big topic and this will be just one part of a conversation that is and should be ongoing within OER. So, we’re taking this first session to hear from our guests all who have really interesting perspectives and experiences with this issue. And then, going forward as Karen mentioned into another session where we talk a little more about strategies to deal with these things.

As it’s a very practical question to come up against these sorts of issues as we’re working. A lot of it will be talking about our systemic legal issues, there aren’t immediate solutions. But we want to make sure that we’re talking about what we can. So, we have a stellar group of guests that I’m really excited to hear from. First up will be Ali Versluis who is the OER librarian at the University of Guelph.

Following Ali, we have Melissa Ashman who is an instructor and the interim department chair of applied communications at Kwantlen Polytechnic University, NBC. Following Melissa, we’ll be hearing from Esperanza Zenon who is physical sciences instructor at River Parishes Community College. And then, finally we’ll hear from Monica Brown who is the OER coordinator at Boise State University.

So, I will hand it over to Ali to get us started. And then, once we’ve heard from each of our guests we’ll regroup and hopefully there’ll be some good questions and discussions come out, because I think everybody will have something to share about this. Thank you, Ali.

Ali: Hey everyone, can you hear me okay? Awesome, okay. So, I’ve made some notes here just because I wanted to cover a lot of ground in five minutes and didn’t really want to miss anything. So, I thought what would be helpful for me and hopefully for you folks too on the call is just to give you a bit of an overview of my role and the types of projects that I’ve been working on.

And especially since there’s going to be so many folks on the call, I’d really like to, I have some thoughts about labor, and I can talk about the different types of invisible labor that I’ve done. But really, I’m hoping that some of that really rich conversation comes out in the more informal part of the discussion. So, hopefully that’s okay. So, as Zoe mentioned, I’m an OER librarian at the University of Guelph.

So, in this role I really educate and liaise with the university community on open content licensing and student-centered pedagogy. So, in terms of what that looks like, so I develop course-based and standalone workshops for both faculty and students that focus on finding open content, evaluating resources and really helping them understand their rights with respect to privacy in terms of the students’ concerns.

And intellectual property as well, especially when we’re thinking about student creation and we have a lot of faculty who are creating their own course materials as well. So, working with them to help them understand what putting something in the open actually means, what people can do with that. So, there’s four main areas that I focus on for my job. So, helping people who are interested in adapting OER.

So, I’ve been working a lot with a faculty member in the biological sciences to migrate an OpenStax textbook into Pressbooks. And updating some of that content, bringing in interactive elements, things like that. And that project has involved folks who work in the library, in the digital media studio. So, some coop students, a librarian that works in there. So, supporting folks who are just looking to switch up their textbook or their other course materials.

So, finding openly licensed material that already exists out there that they don’t really want to adapt at this point, they just want to find openly licensed substitutions or things that might be available through the library as well. So, not things that are technically open, but still things that are affordable, it’s part of my job, too. And supporting open pedagogy projects. So, there is an open pedagogy project that I’m working on right now with a faculty member in human health and nutritional sciences.

And it’s this ambitious three-year project. There is a cohort of about 16 students that go through an independent study course. And these students are students who have already taken a human physiology course. And they are taking a retrospective approach and saying, “What would have helped me learn that material when I was taking this course?” So, they are finding OER and then subsequent cohorts of students will be pulling those resources together.

Fleshing out some of that interactive content, and at the end, there will be an OER created from that. So, that’s a multi-year project, really rich but we’re really looking at it, not only as an open project but also an experiential learning project. So, developing some different capacities in undergrad students when they’re thinking about their role in the teaching and learning process.

And as I mentioned earlier, helping folks migrate self-created content into more open formats. So, we have a lot of folks who have already made their own course materials, which is super awesome. But it’s living behind the LMS and it’s locked up, so having conversations with folks about how we can make that a more accessible resource, even if it’s not completely open in the way that a perfect OER is.

It’s worth noting too that this is a newish role to me, I’ve been in it since June and it’s actually a secondment. So, for those of you who don’t know what that is, it’s just a fancy way of saying leave. So, I got to go on leave from my old job and try something new on, which was really exciting. And it’s a two-year position, so because this position is new to Guelph and I’m really figuring it out as I go along.

I do have a job description, but still figuring out what the heck I’m doing. That is where I’m also seeing a lot of these implications for labor. Not only because at the end of the two years I have to prove the value of this project and presumably that’s going to be having some successful use cases that I can point to. So, I’m thinking about what is success? What can I point to in terms of projects?

And I think that this also intersects with my role as an early career librarian, I’m on the tenure track. And as a person who has lots of diverse interests, I already have a tendency to do a lot of things and experiment with a lot of things. But I think because of this job, because there’s no roadmap that it’s a bit challenging in terms of figuring out where I should be focusing my labor and time and what falls within the purview of other folks that I work with or other folks at the organization.

At the University of Guelph, we have a team-based model. So, instead of having a liaison librarian, that’s the librarian that does everything for math and chemistry. We have people in functional roles which is a bit challenging for an OER role, because OER doesn’t really neatly live anywhere. It lives in scholarly communication, it lives in teaching and learning, it lives in copyright.

It lives in accessibility, it lives in student success, it lives in all of these different areas and relies on a lot of different skillsets to support that work. So, I have found it a bit challenging, too when I’m thinking about labor to think about where my work and open work more generally intersects with the expertise. But also, the workflow of other folks in those areas and in collections too.

I’m trying to bring people into that conversation but it’s challenging to figure out you’re really having conversations about values and workflow and dealing with tradition and all of these really challenging things that impact what that work looks like and how it can be done. So, really all that, to sum up, the things that I’m thinking a lot about as I progress through this role is really this idea of emotional labor.

So, whether that’s working with my colleagues in figuring out how to not step on their toes, whether that is talking to students and then showing them about what their rights are and thinking about privacy. Whether I’m talking to faculty and having those conversations that are like open isn’t as scary as you think. Let me help you understand it. So, really those emotional conversations that I feel like are not often quantified or people don’t understand just to the degree and the amount that you have to do of those conversations.

And I’m also thinking about the labor after creation, so it’s all right to talk about creation or finding these objects. But who makes these things discoverable? Who is responsible for maintaining them? So, we’re thinking about grant programs, but we’re not sure what that will look like and we need to think about that discoverability aspect. And on a broader macrolevel thinking about where does this labor actually live?

I work within a library, and that’s great, I’m a librarian. But if we support this thing as an institution, but if the roles and the grants and the support structures are living in the library, how does it shape how this work is understood or valued? So, these are all of the things that keep me up at night.

Zoe: Excellent, thank you for that, Ali. And I’ll hand over to you, Melissa.

Melissa: Thank you, can you hear me? Yeah, perfect. Okay, so my name’s Melissa Ashman and I wanted to begin with a land acknowledgment that I’m participating today from the unseated traditional ancestral lands and territories of the Coast Salish people, specifically the Musqueam and Kwantlen nations. So, I’m on the south coast of BC, on the west coast of Canada.

And I am working at Kwantlen Polytechnic University, which is one of the leading institutions in Canada for zero textbook cost programs. So, I’m really fortunate, really lucky to be surrounded by colleagues who are just so enthusiastic and so open, no pun intended, about open education and open resources. So, I came in to open education and open pedagogy through textbook costs.

And having students come up to me and say, “Do I really have to buy the textbook? Do I need to buy this textbook?” So, I came into it from what can I do to support students to help them limit their textbook costs and not be a barrier to their education. But the more I delved into it, the more I became really excited by the possibilities. And I’m now part of a working group at Kwantlen that helps in assigning, distributing rather grants for other faculty to engage in open projects.

I’m leading a working group within my department to develop some teaching resources, and I’m also redesigning my course assignments from an open pedagogy perspective to make them more renewable. So, when I think about invisible labor in open, I think about the work that is not easily seen, is not by the naked eye. It’s work that gets done that’s maybe undervalued or taken for granted or maybe not recognized in formal university or college tenure or promotion or recognition structures.

So, how can we recognize and acknowledge the contributions of students? What about sessional faculty or contract faculty in particular? What about, something that Ali touched on as well, that advocacy work and supporting others? So, I’ve been in this space for a year, a year and a half now, and I’ve taken on an interim chair role within my department. So, I’m really starting to think about from a leadership perspective what can I do to help support others who may be doing a lot of work in open?

And how can I elevate the work that they’re doing and support the work that they’re doing and help connect them to others? Get the recognition that they need? Before I worked at Kwantlen, I worked at another large university in my area, that shall remain nameless. And I heard anecdotally one day a story about a researcher, a faculty member who worked in community-based research who got passed over for promotion and tenure because her work didn’t look like she’d done enough, or she’d published enough.

But she’d done so much work to connect with the community, and to connect with others. So, I see a lot of similarities with open and people who engage in open, how can we have this work recognized by universities and others? So, I don’t have a lot of answers, but it’s something that I’m definitely starting to think about. And so, I’m excited to participate in this webinar today. Thank you.

Zoe: Fantastic, thank you, Melissa. And now, I’ll ask Esperanza to jump in.

Esperanza: Good afternoon, can everybody hear me okay? Great. So, I’m coming to you from River Parishes Community College in Louisiana. I’m nestled between New Orleans and Baton Rouge on the east side of the Mississippi River. And my journey in OER is in some ways similar to what Ali and Melissa have described in terms of the work that has to be done.

I’m fortunate here that at this institution that our chancellor is very aware and very knowledgeable about OER and very supportive of our college embracing this. Because it’s being driven by the college system in this state, the community college system that our courses are textbook free by ’23. That’s the model that we’re working under right now. But unfortunately, slogans don’t get the work done, right?

So, I live in a space where I’m wearing so many different hats. First of all, I’m a faculty member and I heard Melissa mentioning that part of her efforts is to redesign and restructure and embrace OER in her courses. I am also going through that process of developing my courses in an OER format. In fact, I’m ecstatic this morning because finally I got QM off my back.

One of my courses was going through a QM review, and I finally got notified this morning that it was given their blessing because we live by that standard here. QM is the standard we strive for, we use to gauge the quality of our online courses. And if a class doesn’t pass that kind of review, it’s not offered online here at this institution. But that in of itself takes a tremendous amount of work because unlike many institutions we don’t have instructional designers in our system.

So, there’s nobody to go to and ask what’s the best way to do this? We’re on our own to figure that out. And in fact, I also just finished a low budget instructional design course that was offered through our system to try to train folk in our system to become those people that folk can go to when they need help. So, that’s another journey that I’m on, as well. But I teach anywhere from 12 to 14 classes a semester.

So, you couple that with what it takes to be functional and moving this whole OER process forward and that’s a tremendous amount of work. And that’s just part of what I do. I’m also involved in various other projects that are related to women in STEM and STEM equity. And I’m also part of several national science organizations. And I’m the newly elected president of the Louisiana Academy of Sciences in this state.

So, I’ve got hats galore, when you walk in my office, there’s a rack, I need a hat rack for every hat that I put on during the day. But in terms of being invisible, I think people know that the work is being done. But like my chancellor always says, “When there’s a task to get done, you only get about 20%, the same 20% always shows up to get things done.” And I guess in that respect, I feel some of the pressures of being invisible.

Because this is an important project for our students, and I guess I don’t want other faculty members to remain invisible. I want them to step up to the plate. So, that’s the kind of battle that we have here. We have the system and the high ups driving this process, you have only a handful of folks standing up to embrace this process. And yet, in a few years, this whole system has to be textbook free.

We need support of librarians who are knowledgeable and functional in that area. And more than anything, we need a process to make it palatable to folk. So, it is really a task. So, I was just thinking when I was listening and thinking about okay, can I jot down a list of some things that I’m doing? I’m also part of the online review committee here that does review the courses that are developed.

So, not only am I developing my courses, not only am I trying to learn this whole OER process and get better at it, I’m also reviewing other folks’ work for quality on our campus. Conducting workshops, I go to various colleges in the system and talk about the Open Textbook Network and various other OER resources. It’s like one person at a time bringing them on board. It’s the grind, really. Building this OER mindset is a grind.

And it’s sometimes a lonely grind, because there aren’t many other folk willing to go to other colleges and train them and talk to them about this whole OER process. I’m not trying to be mean or anything about it, but sometimes you face the situation where faculty are stuck in their thinking, they’ve been doing it this way, they want to keep doing it this way. They don’t want to change anything.

They like it just like it is, because it’s easy. And my job in part is to help them embrace something that is hard. This is not necessarily easy work, we just got off spring break. And over the course of five days, I had to have three courses built by the Monday morning that we walked in. Three OER courses. And that means literally I gave up spring break, I didn’t get to go to Florida and hang out on the beach or something like that or sip drinks with umbrellas or whatever it is that you do on spring break.

I don’t even know, because I’m trying to grind out this OER process. Nobody’s looking at that, right? Nobody cares if you gave up your spring break to get this stuff done. Just get it done, right? And so, I heard grants being mentioned. I’m the PI on one grant, I’m co-PI on two others. And I’m about to go after a third that deals with OER. So, I’m looking at grants from a lot of different perspectives.

But also, trying to reach out to faculty and say, “We need you on board. Why don’t you write a grant? What do you want to be able to do with OER in your courses?” And trying to stimulate that interest in them. I think there are three of us on this campus that are grant hounds. We go after any grant that’s out there, that’s related to OER. But I’m also the PI on an NSF grant right now.

So, I mentioned training. Not only am I training people, but I’m trying to find avenues to get better at this. And so, it is really a tremendous amount of work, and I’m not doing it because I want the glory, I’m doing it because in the end it helps to make this institution better. And sometimes that’s a lonely mentality, that’s a lonely place to be because you don’t have a lot of other people that are thinking on that level.

We have to do this because it’s going to be good for the students and good for the institution. The first question is what’s it in for some folks? Nothing, there’s nothing in it for you, other than it needs to be done. So, I leave it at that.

Zoe: Amazing, thank you so much Esperanza. I feel like I could have just spent the hour rattling off different job titles for you and we’d never get to anything. I have a question brewing and there’s been some good chat already in the chat. But for now, I’ll hand over to Monica, thank you.

Monica: Hey everyone. I am from Boise State University in Idaho. The place with all the potatoes, if you’re unfamiliar with us. And my story into OER came from being an adjunct. So, I was an adjunct in first year writing. So, teaching English 101, 102, those introductory writing and research courses. So, OER wasn’t something I was cognizant I was even using. I just thought free and openly available resources should be in my course.

I didn’t have the language for it yet, when I started teaching. For me, it was always about it being simply good pedagogy, if I can increase access to the materials and those materials help my students produce their own writing, it’s great. So, from day one for me, OER is just a part of pedagogy. But the difficulty comes in when you’re an adjunct. So, when you’re an adjunct, a lot of that pedagogical prep, all of the course design, none of that is taken into account when you sign that contract that says you start on the first day of the semester.

As if any of us have just walked into a course on the first day of a semester ready to start. Even with programs that have more structured curriculum for you to pick up, it’s still a lot of prep that goes uncompensated for. So, coming into the OER world, I came from course design and that process being just something you had to get done on your own time, on your holiday breaks between semesters.

Because it was a part of the gig and it was a part of doing a good service to students. That is in extreme contrast to the role that I actually occupy now. So, I am a full-time professional staff member in our e-campus unit, as the OER coordinator. That means I get to spend all day every day working on OER, which is pretty unheard of across the country at most institutions.

And the cool part of where I am located is that I am nested within instructional design, and so I can help with the process of developing courses with OER right from the start. And so, I basically serve as a project management role, where I can work one on one with faculty who are interested in using OER, to put that into their course. I also help connect people to grants that we have going on on our campus.

Our state board is very interested in OER right now. And that luckily means that our four-year institutions are being funded to support that work. So, I’m often playing matchmaker between faculty and resource, which is great, it’s a great opportunity to be able to do that. And it’s so shocking because a year ago, I was developing courses on my own time with no funding for that same, exact work.

So, it’s been really exciting to be able to be a person who gets to go to an adjunct faculty member and offer them the support, help searching, help finding the right technology that they can use and build into their course. That same help that I was never offered when I was in their role. So, it’s a really cool setup, but it makes me acutely aware having come from this previous experience of the labor issues that are inherent within it.

Some of the things that I’ve noticed is this idea of risk taking, it’s a risk sometimes to take OER. If you are a contingent faculty member, bucking the status quo in your department has consequences. And those consequences are just not getting the first dibs on the next classes, not getting your contract re-signed. So, even if it’s a good choice for your students, if the rest of the department isn’t supportive it can actually be a risk that involves you having to leave your institution.

And that’s something we don’t necessarily address as explicitly as we can as a community. And I think we can do more to have those conversations because so much of that first two years at the undergraduate level is taught by contingent faculty members, who are already doing everything they can. And so, to put the labor of reducing university costs back on them, to me, I have complications with that at least without a lot of invested support.

The other thing I notice even if we’re thinking of tenure track folks who are doing scholarship, investing your scholarship time into OER instead of writing a textbook has particular ramifications for tenure processes. And I think that there is a unique risk that marginalized folks take on when they have to take that risk.

So, if everyone is betting that it’ll work out if I spend this time creating this OER instead of doing this textbook or this other form of scholarship, that risk is amplified for folks who have historically been barred from the academy. Their tenure portfolios are under greater scrutiny in a lot of ways, because they deal with discrimination systemically throughout their entire career.

So, those are a couple of things that come to the surface for me regardless of whether you’re talking about a tenured faculty or an adjunct faculty, that the labor components are filled with tension. At my own institution, something else that I really noticed is that because marginalized folks are in a position in the university to create these resources, because it comes at free labor to themselves or at risk to themselves.

We don’t have enough access to materials that look at diversity, equity, and inclusion. We don’t have those critical examinations from underrepresented populations. And so, I’m getting requests all spring for our diversity courses and ethics courses and our first-year writing courses. And the materials aren’t out there, because the folks who would have to take that risk are barely surviving the academy to begin with.

At least in my experience, that’s what I’ve noticed. So, those are some things that I’ve noticed, and they’re not easy problems to solve, but I think that it’s important that we locate OER in a larger system of power and labor.

Zoe: Absolutely. I think that’s a perfect note to end on there, and what we’re hoping to do here, there are so many factors at play here. Thank you all so much to our guests for starting us off. I’ll give people a bit of time to come through in the chat with any questions or any other kind of issues that they want to bring up. And I thought I heard from both Esperanza and Monica this idea of just needing to get stuff done.

And it’s just a non-negotiable, it’s an impulse that you have to get things done. And I wondered if either Melissa or Ali wanted to jump in on that, if they’ve had a similar feeling in the work that they’ve been doing. And then, the other thing I was wondering from you, Ali, is I wondered if you had similar experience to Monica of moving from doing OER work generally into a specific role, that that’s kind of broader perspective for you. So, either of those, if someone wants to jump in on.

Ali: Melissa, do you want to go first?

Melissa: Sure, thank you. So, last summer, when I wanted to adopt an open textbook, I looked at what available options were out there and there wasn’t anything that met my needs. So, I sat there, and hummed and hawed and was like, “Well, what am I going to do?” And I guess I’ll just do it. There wasn’t anyone to draw on, so I just secretly in the evenings for six weeks, eight weeks compiled, worked feverishly to do something to prepare, to bring together multiple resources and then just put it out into the world.

And it was like, “Here we go. I just kind of did it.” Because I didn’t even know who to talk to, who to connect with, how do I go about doing this? I guess I’ll just do it myself, because it’s just not going to happen. And I really liked what Monica was saying about the risk in developing OERs and engaging in that. And making sure that the materials that we have reflect the populations and the people who are using them.

And a colleague of mine is taking the textbook that I developed, adapted rather, and has received a grant to incorporate indigenous knowledge and indigenous ways of knowing, neuro diverse perspectives to really make sure that we have a textbook that is representing what we need. It’s a step in the first direction, but there’s a lot more to happen and it’s just a matter of we needed to do it, because we didn’t know who else was going to. So, I’ll throw that back out there for whoever would like to respond.

Zoe: Thanks for that, Melissa, just very quickly Esperanza has had to leave us momentarily. She just got a tornado warning. So, we hope she stays safe, and we’ll hopefully see her again, but obviously, it’s safety first.

Ali: Yeah, Zoe, so to answer your question about that challenge of just needing to get things done. I definitely feel that, especially because my role isn’t permanent, I’m hoping that they make it permanent. But at the end of two years, they could also yank away the funding and say, “Okay, our support for OER is going to look different. It’s not going to be one single point person. We’re all taking this on as a library”, which would have its own benefits and challenges.

I think a huge part of open work is establishing that community of practice. And when you’re the first person at your institution, certainly what I’m seeing at our institution because OER is newer work here, certainly not as established as it is in the States. That the couple of folks on campus who are really interested in it are a little tentative. So, coming back to what Monica was saying too, that idea of risk taking.

And so, a huge part of my role has also been their personal cheerleader and being the person that’s like, “I will help you navigate the weird Pressbooks stuff. Or I will look into this, I will ask my peeps on the list serve.” Just really leaning into that other duties as assigned through my job description, which is good in terms of spinning up some projects and getting traction.

And certainly, that adaptation that I spoke about earlier that I supported in molecular and cellular biology. So, I was helping a faculty member who was adapting the OpenStax microbiology text, and she wanted to update some of the images in there. So, I reached out to the folks in the digital media studio, and we had some librarian coop students who were working in there.

So, they helped and that was really great to provide that support. And the reason that we did it really was a test case, to be like if we’re going to provide this support, what would that look like? How long would that take? How would that workflow look? And so, there’s definitely value in that, but I think it becomes challenging too once you provide that service for someone, even if you do say to them, “This isn’t a regular service. This is a one-time thing.”

There’s still that expectation, or they might tell other faculty members, “This is what the library helped with.” And while that’s great, it provides a lot of challenge in terms of scaling things up, right? Because you need to moderate that workflow, so I definitely feel that pressure too to just try things out and just to do things. And sometimes that has resulted in weeks where I’m just like, “Ah! I’m drowning.”

Because I’m helping these four different people just try to find materials. We know that the resources that exist out there aren’t always perfect. And that not having that subject expertise means that it takes a bit longer to find those things and provide that support. So, I definitely feel that.

Zoe: Yeah, for sure. And I love that you mentioned the cheerleading, too. So, when those weeks where you’ve got the four things all piling on, you, I can imagine, would still need to be staying very positive for the people that you’re interacting with, because they’ve taken a risk to do this work. And so, you’re having to keep that bright sunny face up, so they’re still excited about OER, which is a lot of work when you’re really buried in it as well.

Cool, thank you. So, we have a few questions coming in, I know there’s good conversation happening in the chat. I’ll pull out a question from Deb, who’s asking is there a sense that textbooks published with a traditional publisher do count towards tenure while OER textbooks would not count? Because I think tenure’s been mentioned a couple of places here as one of those formalized ways to recognize work that is put into creating.

So, if any of you want to jump in on that difference between traditionally published textbooks and OER.

Ali: Certainly, at my own institution, I don’t think that I get the impression from faculty that even publishing traditional textbooks isn’t really valued, because it’s not seen as scholarship. So, it’s kind of service-y but different than committee work. So, it seems like it lives in this very nebulous space where it’s not really valued by most people. I think certainly there’s still the misunderstanding that if you’re involved in this open content creation, whether you’re contributing a chapter to a textbook or writing your own textbook.

I think a lot of faculty still think well, it’s not going to be peer reviewed, so it’s definitely going to be sketchy when we know that that’s not the case.

Zoe: Thanks for that, and I saw there was a question earlier that had some good responses about exactly that, about the quality of OER as well. And how peer review factors in, which still feels like an education question. There were some good resources shared that we’ll collect at the end about that too. So, then we heard from April and I know Monica you answered this in the chat. I might get you to share your answer.

Asking whether you have suggestions as to how to document the invisible tasks that take place as instructional designers support faculty through the OER adoption process.

Monica: Yeah, that’s a great question. So, documenting each project really thoroughly is something that I do. And so, I don’t really think there’s going to be a template workflow that we’ll always be able to adhere to. So, each project I treat individually, and I take notes on every step of that process so that I can look back and say, “Oh this project took 14 weeks. And the faculty member was able to get it done in the last three weeks, because it was after the end of the semester.”

I take those notes so that I can really understand what my support role is, because I need to be flexible, I need to be meeting faculty where they’re at, especially when I’m thinking about adjunct faculty who deserve all the support in the world. So, that’s something that I do, beyond using those notes, I’m not there yet. But I have been taking those notes and really keeping track of each project individually.

Because what works for one faculty might not work for another. And I just want to make sure that whatever support I’m providing is best for them. Almost like how you would approach supporting students, right? Some kind of question that I had, and I just want to throw this out to the group, I know there’s not easy answers on any of this, but I’m wondering if there are ideas or thoughts around how we can use this OER movement to not add to the labor crisis in the university system?

Because I think we’re pushing for it, and it’s great. But how can we make sure that it doesn’t fall disproportionately on people who are already structurally in this power system, doing the best they can? So, that’s a question that I have, and I don’t think there’s easy answers for it, but I wanted to throw it out there. How can we make sure that OER support isn’t OER burden on top of an already heavy teaching load and contingency?

Zoe: Anyone want to jump in on that one? Melissa or Ali or anybody else in the chat?

Kathy: This is Kathy at Oklahoma State University. I’m fortunate here to be a full-time OER librarian. And as I consider that, and I look at how busy my faculty and instructors are, one of the ways I can really help them is to know my end as well as possible, to bring my instructional design chaps to bear, to really know our publishing platform. So that ideally, they can just vomit their subject matter expertise in my direction, or hand me their syllabus.

So, I can talk to students that have been on their courses, and then I can maybe cobble together something to bring to them and let them refine, but we’re still establishing a workflow.

Karen: Monica, I heard you talk about how your role as a dedicated OER coordinator really makes a difference. And so, it seems that that is a step in the right direction. The more legitimacy and money and time that is carved out will go a long way in making sure that people aren’t just adding onto their already extensive to-do list. And it’s such a wonderful question because of course, this is happening in the academies, it’s also happening everywhere.

Just the expectations that we’re always working, we’re always responsive, we’re always getting things done is very much embedded in our current culture. And there’s not always the equivalent of a tech pay check with that in different industries or the acknowledgement that you’re doing something that’s immediately glamorous or sexy to people. Like OER, there’s a lot to explain about it. There’s a learning curve.

And so, it just doesn’t necessarily have the splash that I think sometimes people experience as a form of payment in our current culture. So, related to your question, I wonder too how much can be done in that relationship with your dean or supervisor? Esperanza talked about how the chancellor has this vision. And I’m just thinking about your local leaders and if people out there have stories about I feel like my work is seen because my supervisor has done this.

Or I had a raise, or we took our job description from A to B. But these other entrenched issues of shunting work to another class of staff and faculty and their rights and responsibilities like there are so many things to unpack in this topic. It’s really daunting, but also really important. So, I add onto your question and put that our there as well, if people have stories to share.

Ali: I think in terms of valuing that work and advocating for it, I’ve been very lucky at the University of Guelph. I have an awesome manager, who’s like always going to the mat for our team which is excellent. But my position actually grew out of about a year and a half of advocacy work that the library had done more generally. So, when I started at the library on contract, heard rumblings that our university librarian, the big boss, very interested in OER.

So, I started to explore that area but was really doing it off the side of my desk. And was a third of my job, because I had all these different areas, I felt like I wasn’t doing justice to any of them and we were on this committee. But as I’m sure everyone on the call knows, getting committee work to push ahead big mandates is really challenging, especially because committee work is just extra work often.

And I went to my boss and said, “I’ve been doing research and work and going to conferences in this area for a year. But if you really want this work to happen on campus, you want adopters, you want people to be doing this, you need to have a dedicated person.” I said, “Doesn’t necessarily have to be me, but you need to allocate those resources to show that you’re serious about it because otherwise, it’s just never ever going to happen.”

Because again, you need to be that cheerleader, you also need to be the expert, you also need to be the connector, you also need to serve so many different roles and it’s impossible for anyone to do that on top of a whole other job. So, I know that that is not the case at all, but at Guelph we were very lucky that that was recognized by both my manager and upper admin as well.

To create this position, even if it is only temporary, at least it gives me the bandwidth to explore things more and to provide more support.

Zoe: Absolutely. Sorry, Melissa, go ahead.

Melissa: I was going to jump on and add to that, which is that as I mentioned at the beginning, I’m really fortunate to work at Kwantlen University where we have someone at high level administration who is a huge proponent of open education. And has worked tirelessly to support the creation of three credentials at our university that have zero textbook costs. And there’s been this top down push and support for open education.

But it’s still been challenging to find other people at my institution within my department even, who are doing this. But there is that recognition, there are funds given at the university for grants to develop open resources, open projects. And I think that really having that top down support has been really, really critical for our university to emerge as a leader in this area.

Zoe: I see there’s a lot of great chat going on. I wanted to pick up on something that Jess shared, saying that she’s interested in the dynamics around who is doing the work and who is contributing back to the commons? Some have capital to create resources, some are in states with more money and more support staff, and some do not have any of that. And that was something that I was thinking of, when you were talking Melissa, about spending your evenings writing a textbook that’s not something that everybody is able to do.

So, what does that do in terms of who is able to do the creation? Whose voices are involved in it? And there was a comment earlier about how do you show the quality of free textbooks? That sparked a thought for me that how do you show that they’re not actually free to create? And then, as Jess says, not everybody is able to have the support and the access to funding for that. So, what does that do?

This is not a question we can answer right here, but it’s a thought that occurred to me, if anybody wants to bounce off that.

Monica: I’ll jump in on Jess’ point a little bit about giving back to the commons. Because we’re talking about the labor and what does it take to get materials into my course for my students next semester. Contributing to the commons is another layer of labor, it is not just as easy as uploading all the time. And I think it’s important that we recognize that that is another burden, right?

Not just compiling materials for my course, or making materials for my course, or revising them, but then where do I even give that back? And how do I give that back? And honestly, why should I give it back, right? And that is a very important question for marginalized folks because there has been historical entitlement to labor that we need to acknowledge. If a faculty of color does a really great collection of resources and doesn’t actually want to share that beyond their institution, there’s nothing wrong with that decision.

And I think that what I’ve just said is very counter to the OER culture as a whole. And so, I know I’m taking a risk in saying that, but I do want to put it out there, that we need to have respect for their labor, and know that contributing to the commons is not implicitly an easy step for everyone. We also, as a vein with that, as well as authorship with the CC BY and rolling those things over, scholars of color have had their work taken from them.

We know the hidden figures. So, there are different implications in asking someone to give back to the commons. So, I would ask that as we have those conversations as a community, we’re really cognizant of that, because I think it’s under the surface there. And so, it’s part of making it visible, right?

Ali: I really loved what you said, Monica. I think about this a lot in terms of student labor, as well, because I think especially if you have a course that has an open pedagogy component, that’s all well and good and that’s super awesome. But there also needs to be options for students who don’t want to participate in this public scholarship or these public conversations to still participate in the grade.

Because folks have all sorts of reasons to not feel safe or comfortable putting their work out in the open, so yeah, I think it’s important to recognize that at all levels of creation: faculty, students, staff, and the people supporting that work, too. So, I’m really glad you mentioned that, Monica.

Zoe: Absolutely, and we had a great question pop up from Kathy, asking is there a way for those of us who are full-time OER that they could help people like Esperanza and others who don’t have the same kind of support and who are doing so much?

Esperanza: Forgive me, I’m trying to find my place again.

Zoe: Welcome back.

Esperanza: I missed a whole lot, help me out.

Zoe: So, we’ve been hearing from a few people who have institutional support and they have formal roles doing this work. And so, wondering about when they have that time, how maybe could they support someone like you who has the 100 different hats but not necessarily the same on campus support? I’m wondering if even to the level if there are resources as Monica, you’re documenting the process that you’re going through with all of your course adoptions.

That that maybe becomes useful to other people who don’t have access to an OER coordinator on campus. Or if there are other ways that we could share some of this knowledge around.

Esperanza: Well, I’ll just say on our campus, the library staff is invaluable. They are really our guiding lights, in terms of helping us to curate the resources that we need to put these courses together. And developing materials that can be just dropped into a course to help you meet certain goals. Those kinds of things really help a person like me, who has a lot of things going on.

And sometimes it feels like a very limited time to get a lot done, where OER is concerned. Those kinds of resources and tools and support, that’s really what makes it possible for us. So, that’s the kind of thing that sometimes faculty like me where we don’t really have an instructional design background we really need.

Zoe: Absolutely, and there was a great comment from Matthew in the chat that you already are, by doing the work you do, hosting conferences, bringing people to talk at your school, sharing it out, creating knowledge and space for faculty who don’t have OER in their job titles. I really like that.

Ali: I think another way that’s really helpful for folks who have that power and privilege, and I say that as a person who does have that power and privilege to have OER be the focal point in my job. I think a huge part of it is community building, and I don’t just mean being on list serves and pushing resources out. I think a huge part of the thing that I found really valuable is connecting with people who can acknowledge the more frustrating and crappy things that happen when you’re doing this work all the time.

And sometimes being vocal about those things, right? Being vocal about those frustrations and sharing those things that don’t work, I think that also creates— I try and be really visible about that in my work and in my public persona on Twitter, at conferences, acknowledging those harder things too because not only do I think that builds up that rapport. It also makes people feel less isolated in their work.

So, if you are struggling with something, you know that honestly, maybe not you, it’s maybe that there’s not a tool that has that functionality and the workaround is really time consuming and it sucks. And so, being honest about that, I think is really helpful, especially for those folks who just have it as part of their jobs, to just be like, “Okay, it’s not just me. It’s not that I don’t know how to do the thing.

It’s that there’s not a tool that exists to do that.” And I think what you said, Zoe also being those resources and those people who are supporting, so being on a list serve, being willing to share time and ideas and even just to be a person that listens when someone is like, “This thing sucks.” And you’re like, “Yes, it does. Let’s talk about it.” Just showing that empathy and that support.

Zoe: And validation, I think validation can go a really long way and then, even before you move in to try to find the solution to anything, it’s about knowing that it is a really shared experience that so many of us have in this community. Okay, great. So, we’re approaching the hour. So, Karen, was that an unmuting to start wrapping up?

Karen: I just wanted to acknowledge and appreciate what Ali said, and what everyone has said about emotional labor being such a huge part of this work and also in teaching in general. And I’m currently working with a team of people, probably a few of whom are on this call, on developing slides for the upcoming LPF OER publishing workshop. And almost every section ends with what can go wrong?

And self-care, because it’s just you share best practices and then you feel like oh they’re best practices. This is the recipe for success. And so, just acknowledging, no. Even these best practices here are different things that may unfold and acknowledging that, so that when you are alone in a room trying to host a workshop you can fall back on I’m not the only one who’s felt this before or had this experience.

So, I just really appreciate that. I also really appreciate our four guests for joining us. And the very active conversation in this call. And just want to say again, that we’re going to continue this conversation in May. We’ll talk more about strategies we hope as many of you as possible can join us again to keep exploring this issue. So, Zoe, I’ll hand things back to you.

Zoe: Thanks, Karen. And I’ll just echo the same, thank you to our guests and everybody who shared questions and comments in the chat. I saw a note asking whether the chat can be shared as well. I think we’ll say yes, but if anybody would like to be anonymized, please reach out and we can do that. And another reflection I’m having here is I think there’s something about the phase that we’re at with OER.

That is bringing a lot of these kind of issues to the fore, and that it takes the work of the terminology of early adopters or the people who’ve gotten into really drive things forward and that’s a lot of work. And it’s really valuable work, and we have to be bonded together to make it happen and to not burn ourselves out while doing it. So, I’m really, really looking forward to our next session as well.

There have already been a bunch of great ideas in the chat that we’ll move forward. And we hope to see you all there again very, very soon. So, thank you everybody.

Karen: Farewell.

Chat Transcript

00:55:30 Apurva Ashok: Welcome everyone! So glad you could join us today to chat about this important topic.
00:56:07 Apurva Ashok: More details about our session in May (Part 2) here: https://www.rebus.community/t/office-hours-strategies-for-dealing-with-invisible-labour-21-may-2019-2pm-est-6pm-utc/1333
01:06:09 Apurva Ashok: Lots of great things to unpack there, Ali – thanks for getting us started!
01:06:45 wallacec: General question: Have you ever dealt with questions of quality with regard to OER? Free may sometimes mistakenly lead some to thing of lower quality?
01:07:01 wallacec: *think
01:08:11 Jessica Norman | SAIT: Yes, we developed a rubric specific to OER materials to address those faculty concerns: https://www.sait.ca/Documents/About%20SAIT/Administration/Policies%20and%20Procedures/AC.2.21.1%20Open%20Educational%20Resources%20Schedule%20A.pdf
01:08:56 elizabeth batte: This rubric is VERY helpful. Thank you for sharing!
01:09:10 April Jollie: Answer: Only faculty can determine quality (plus there is research)

They can’t be that good if they’re free, right?

Only you [faculty member] can tell if a book is good, open or not. What we can say is that faculty who reviewed textbooks in the OTL have given high ratings.

How do I know if a book is “good?”

The best way is to review for yourself – the books are free online. Also look at reviews on the OTL. (NOTE: do NOT claim quality unless you are an expert in their field)

Is the quality the same as other textbooks?

There is a growing number of studies that show that students have the same or better learning outcomes when using open textbooks. But only you can judge quality for your own course.

Are students learning using these resources?

Numerous case studies have found that student outcomes are as good or better with open content vs. traditional materials.
01:09:21 Jessica Norman | SAIT: Plus, we ask them how they evaluate their current textbooks? That same process should be applied to ANY materials that are selected for the course, OER or traditional publications.
01:09:28 Wilhelmina Randtke: That’s a common problem for software.
01:09:44 Wilhelmina Randtke: Someone may make tools to accomplish work, but those are not publications
01:10:46 wallacec: Thanks everyone!
01:10:52 Justin White: Nice
01:11:03 Deb Quentel – CALI: Jessica, Thanks for the rubric! Very helpful.
01:11:43 Jessica Norman | SAIT: QM= Quality Matters?
01:11:43 wallacec: Awesome! Congratulations!
01:11:54 Apurva Ashok: Jessica – yep, that’s it!
01:12:00 wallacec: Yes, that’s correct
01:12:12 COERLL UT Austin: Some quality assurance can be based on reviews on platforms like Open Textbook Library, merlot.org, oercommons.org
01:13:03 Deb Quentel – CALI: I’d like to hear more (another office hours?) about moving a course through QM with a OER materials.
01:13:11 wallacec: Wow! Admirable work.
01:13:26 Olga: That’s amazing!
01:14:19 Apurva Ashok: Deb, great suggestion – we’ll see if we can put together a session on this topic.
01:16:28 wallacec: Yes, very true!
01:16:46 Jessica Norman | SAIT: Change management is the hardest part!
01:17:13 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: It would be easy for you to feel exhausted and isolated! It sounds like you are doing great work.
01:18:08 wallacec: I think the satisfaction comes in knowing the impact to students ultimately. Hat’s off to you.
01:18:10 Apurva Ashok: PI = Principal Investigator, yes? So the lead/person responsible for the grant project?
01:18:42 wallacec: Yes that’s correct
01:20:03 ezenon: Yes Apurva the PI
01:20:39 Ali Versluis: I love that you mentioned training, Esperanza! So much of the work that librarians, faculty, and other educators do is teaching. I think a lot of the work that goes into lesson planning, active learning, etc. etc are also part of invisible labour. And emotional labour too — teaching is hard!
01:21:07 Ali Versluis: It’s really hard to be on! And to constantly reevaluate your teaching to be the most effective it can be
01:21:48 wallacec: Nice!!
01:21:54 April Akins: That’s awesome!
01:22:33 Michelle Reed: Congrats! That’s wonderful!
01:23:35 Ali Versluis: LOVE that you mentioned risk taking Monica! flame emoji flame emoji
01:23:58 wallacec: WOW… never thought of it in that context… the risk taking aspect.
01:24:00 ezenon: Those who are doing the most always get tasked to do more
01:24:16 Ali Versluis: DEFINITELY YES!
01:24:22 Apurva Ashok: Definitely!
01:25:26 wallacec: unfortunate
01:25:29 Wilhelmina Randtke: Yeah, survisvorship bias…
01:25:46 Wilhelmina Randtke: it colors everything
01:25:50 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: Whoop!!
01:26:45 Deb Quentel – CALI: Is there a sense that textbooks published with a traditional publisher DO count toward tenure while OER text book would NOT count?
01:27:22 Apurva Ashok: Please feel free to unmute yourselves and ask a question out loud too, if you feel comfortable doing so. Questions posted in the chat will be read out loud. 🙂
01:27:29 April Jollie: Monica, do you have any suggestions as to how to document the “invisible tasks” that take place as Instructional designers support the faculty through the OER process?
01:27:29 Cable Green (CC): I came late … did anyone talk about working with promotion and tenure committees (and Deans / Dept. Chairs) to value / give points to Open Education and Open Access publishing when faculty / teachers present their portfolio to the P&T committee?
01:28:05 ezenon: I hate to interupt, but we jut got a tornado warning and I need to shelter in place
01:28:25 Leigh Kinch-Pedrosa: Okay stay safe!
01:28:29 Zoe Wake Hyde: Yikes! Do what you need to do, Esperanza!
01:28:30 Jess Mitchell: Be safe @ezenon !
01:28:30 April Akins: stay safe
01:28:33 Apurva Ashok: Oh goodness, stay safe!
01:28:33 Zoe Wake Hyde: Take care!!
01:28:33 Olga: Oh my goodness. Be carefull!
01:28:39 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: Cable, Monica just shared some super perspective regarding amplified risk for those historically barred from the academy
01:29:29 Monica Brown: April, that’s a great question! Right now, I’m working on making an inventory of tasks and roles for OER as I go through the process of helping faculty curate and compile resources. I’m also trying to keep track of the steps in open pedagogical design. It’s all a work in process to better understand all the moving pieces!
01:29:56 April Jollie: yes, I’m in that same process
01:30:27 Matt Ruen: +1 to Deb’s question/topic. Something I’ve noticed is that traditional publisher books have markers of “quality” (or at least Seriousness) like publishing contracts or established reputation. How can OER replicate or replace those signs?
01:30:30 Terry Williams: wow, amazing turnout today!
01:30:45 Olga: Hiya Terry!
01:31:35 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: Also on Deb’s, thank you for that perspective. We are working toward getting language into tenure and promotion in support of OER creation and adaptation — I hadn’t considered whether or not traditional textbooks are even included, I am not sure they are here!
01:32:04 Jessica Norman | SAIT: I’m attempting to put together a workflow document for OER projects to make the work more visible at my institution. It’s based on a workflow created by Billy Meinke at University of Hawaii: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1XVJpU9S4Bb32K3GblNVw4uy1Ely9rTXnr8bkFDM5-yk/edit?usp=sharing
01:32:04 April Jollie: To Matt’s question. Faculty like to know what OER textbooks are already being used at other instititions or have been reviewed by institutions they respect
01:32:24 Sophie Forrester: Well said, Matt!
01:32:37 Michelle Reed: So true- all of that!
01:32:52 Matt Ruen: I meant more for OER-creators. What can they do (what can we do?) to help that work look as Serious as traditional publishing?
01:32:59 Deb Quentel – CALI: Kathy, some schools value articles (just articles) and not any textbooks regardless of where it is published.
01:32:59 Karen Lauritsen: Yes, that’s my sense as well.
01:33:00 Leigh Kinch-Pedrosa: Thanks for sharing your workflow doc, Jessica.
01:33:45 April Jollie: I appreciate the workflow too
01:34:23 Ali Versluis: ahh, sorry I misunderstood Matt!
01:34:30 Matt Ruen: Kathy, we have a weird blend–textbooks are sort of scholarship, but if you take the same content and describe it as a scholarly monograph suddenly it’s the top tier of scholarship.
01:35:02 April Jollie: Yes, they tend to spend a long time in one phase and then zoom through others
01:35:17 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: Our faculty council voted in a recommendation that OER be considered in promotion and tenure here. I’m not sure if it will reflect teaching or scholarship, what experience do the rest of you have with establishing that?
01:35:29 Ali Versluis: Like April said, I think faculty really value what their peers are doing. In the absence of us creating structural support for that vis a vis tenure and promotion, I think we can do a lot better in terms of sharing out adopters so that faculty can at least see “oh this person at that institution I know has done this so it isn’t that bad”
01:35:53 Jess Mitchell: i’m interested in the dynamics around who is doing the work and who is contributing back to the commons. Some have capital to create resources, some are in states with more $$ and more support staff and some do not have any of that
01:36:27 Ali Versluis: This doesn’t help the brave soul who has to take the plunge but I think as folks who support adopters, we could certainly be more proactive about the tools and resources we support and making sure adoptations are shared out (assuming folks feel comfortable)
01:36:51 April Jollie: OER Summit and COERLL created resources in a Canvas platform that I have found very helpful as I work with faculty
01:37:04 wallacec: I think if/when the research effectively supports the use of OER in correlation to student success it can move the needle in terms of institutional and faculty champion the work… possibly
01:37:31 wallacec: Research is already available to support the success of students.
01:38:26 wallacec: OER has been proven to impact retention and completion rates.
01:38:44 Kristi Jensen: I think we need to consider new “business models” to support OER creation including faculty buy out to write and adapt/adopt. A small student fee (at an individual institution or across consortial institutions) could provide a budget to support this. I am not sure we will ever create wide impact without a “business model” to replace the current publisher model.
01:38:54 Nathalie from COERLL: Our center created this community webpage to feature OER of Language instructors and grad students, work that would often go unnoticed: https://community.coerll.utexas.edu/
01:39:14 Jessica Norman | SAIT: Thanks Nathalie!
01:39:16 April Jollie: Yes, we have faculty who are wanting to teach two courses one OER and one using the textbook to see if there is any difference in student learning
01:40:00 April Jollie: I love the OER Ambassador Badge!
01:40:54 wallacec: Data drives change
01:41:12 Kathy Labadorf: my faculty creating oer textbooks brought up that time release would be much more support in this area than being given a $5 -$10,000 stipend. oer is being done on top of a more than full time job. I ‘d love to know if this is happening anywhere.
01:41:34 April Jollie: no compensation at all here
01:41:56 Deb Quentel – CALI: Does anyone do a launch party (like a band’s CD release party) at their school when an OER book that’s goimg to be used so widely at their school gets completed? Would that spure visibility/reputation issues? I’ll bring cake if someone wants to try it 🙂
01:42:14 Monica Brown: Stipends tend to be the primary choice at our institution. Administration has been hesitant to pay for buy-outs of faculty time.
01:42:14 Olga: Yes, at McMaster my work in open is an add-on. And the relationship building is difficult without a liaison program.
01:42:20 wallacec: Grants! Starts the work and if successful then can be institutionalized. Allowing course releases is effective and thoughtful
01:42:28 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: Deb, that sounds cool!
01:42:40 April Jollie: That’s a great idea Deb, most of the faculty who are willing to take the rest are not large demand courses
01:43:11 April Jollie: LOL “take the risk”
01:43:40 Emily Carlisle: Olga — it’s been the same experience for me here. But we do have a liaison program and I still find it a challenge, because other librarians feel it’s just another thing to “liase” about in terms of the work they’re already doing with their liaison departments
01:43:42 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: Is there a way those of us who are full time OER could help folks like Esperanza who are doing so much?
01:43:55 ezenon: All good
01:43:56 Apurva Ashok: Kathy, that’s a great question
01:44:02 Jess Mitchell: +1 @kathy
01:44:04 Zoe Wake Hyde: Welcome back, Esperanza! Glad you’re ok
01:44:50 Terry Williams: Hear, hear. Open is a discretionary choice, and does involve more labour.
01:45:04 Matt Ruen: Totally agree, Monica! If we don’t center authors’ agency, we are as bad as the commercial publishers & the system we’re trying to change!
01:45:08 Jess Mitchell: Nicely said @monica !
01:45:09 Apurva Ashok: +1 Monica. Thank you for saying that.
01:45:16 Michelle Reed: We are in our third year of a grant program funded by library and just got feedback that we should consider removing stipends for content creators in order to better advocate for institutional funds. It worries me what doing this would communicate about the significant labor that goes into this work. And also our ability to compete with commercial publishers who are offering up royalties.
01:45:18 Cable Green (CC): Well said, Monica.
01:45:20 April Akins: Agree Monica
01:45:20 Leigh Kinch-Pedrosa: Documentation is a huge job in and of itself. Proving the value of our own work is something that takes time. A small thing we could all do is to amplify and celebrate the work of our peers in an effort to lessen their load.
01:45:21 Matthew DeCarlo: awesome
01:45:39 tricia.soto: Yes! Monica – Thank you.
01:45:45 Olga: That’s interesting Emily! I never thought of it that way. I thought a liaison program would make a difference in the amount of progress and understanding for OER.
01:46:02 Melissa Ashman: Agree with Monica. Thank you for your perspective!
01:46:45 Matthew DeCarlo: yes! you already are! by doing the work you do, hosting conferences, bringing people to talk at your school, and sharing it out, you create the knowledge and space for faculty who don’t have oer in their job titles
01:46:58 Emily Carlisle: Yes, Olga, I can definitely the benefits and challenges of each model. The liaison model has proven helpful in terms of building connections and getting an “in”
01:47:34 wallacec: I agree… Librarians are amazing partners in this movement
01:47:47 Wilhelmina Randtke: If you send a full paragraph thank you note and cc’ the person’s supervisor, then put your full signature line, then that can help to make the work visible up the chain.
01:47:52 Wilhelmina Randtke: That can help alot
01:48:05 Emily Carlisle: ^^what a great idea!
01:48:11 Wilhelmina Randtke: Because most feedback is complaints, or a two word “Thank you” email with no one cc’ed.
01:49:58 Michelle Reed: It’s so important, and you’re great at sharing the hard stuff, Ali!
01:50:12 Jess Mitchell: nice, @Ali, you’re doing the community of practice by being transparent about the struggles — so important!
01:51:06 Olga: Can the chat be recorderd and sent to us as well as he recording?
01:51:21 ezenon: This feels like AAA for OER…Hi my name is Zenon and I’m an OERer
01:51:28 Emily Frank: 🙂
01:51:30 Apurva Ashok: Really, thank you all so much for starting this conversation today. Not only Ali, Melissa, Esperanza, and Monica, but everyone who listened in today or joined the chat. <3
01:51:42 Apurva Ashok: @Olga, yes, we can definitely share the chat transcript too!
01:51:52 ezenon: My pleasure
01:52:00 Celicia Wallace: Thank you everyone. This was a great conversation. Thanks also for the resources provided.
01:52:00 Ali Versluis: Yes! And best practices look different at liberal arts schools, R1s, different library structures and institutional context!
01:52:01 Monica Brown: Thank you for hosting!
01:52:02 Apurva Ashok: Details for our session in May: https://www.rebus.community/t/office-hours-strategies-for-dealing-with-invisible-labour-21-may-2019-2pm-est-6pm-utc/1333
01:52:33 Kathy Essmiller-OkState: And in the semester 🙂
01:53:02 Ali Versluis: Thanks everyone! You’re all shining stars in the OER universe!

Thanks to Mei Lin for preparing the audio transcript and video captions!

Have comments or feedback about these transcripts? Let us know in the Rebus Community platform.

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